Should Gay/Lesbian Marriages be Legal?

[jupiterlightning]

Okay. I know a lot of you know about the controversies about gays/lesbians. My question to you is: Do you believe gay/lesbian marriages should be legal?

I am kind of neutral to the idea. Meaning that I'm not fully against or for it. To some degree I think it is wrong and totally against religious teachings, but I also think that there is nothing you can really do for this situation now.

You all probably have clearer views on this, so let me read 'em.

[Hopeless Maiden]

I think they should be legal.

Homosexual people are just normal people, leading normal lives - with one exception. Just because they happen to be attracted to the same sex doesn't mean that they, as couples, shouldn't have the same rights and privleges as heterosexual couples.

It all comes down to one question; "Is it anybody's business if a homosexual couple marries?" If a woman wants to marry another woman, then why not? If a man wants to marry another man, who are we to say no? If they love each other and are comitted to each other, just like a heterosexual couple, then they should be allowed to marry.

I'm not religious by any means, but I'm going to argue that point as someone from the outside who looks in.

It might go against religious teachings, but why would God make people homosexual if He didn't want it to happen? Sure, some people may say that the Natural Law is that a man-woman relationship is the right way, but is there really any "right" ways when it comes to love and attraction? I don't think so. Just because religion says it's wrong, doesn't mean the law has to as well.

And before someone says that they choose to be homosexual, (not saying that somone here would, but just in case) think about it. Why would someone make a decision like that? Especially since they know it would lead to them being stereotyped and persecuted?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is illegal to discriminate against homosexuals, correct? So, by not allowing homosexual couples to marry, the government is effectively discriminating them; thus going against their own laws. It is a very round-about way of looking at it, but it actually makes sense when you stop to think about it.

This is a topic that is very sensitive, so I'm very sorry for anyone I may have offended during this post (expecially the very religious). I am simply expressing my opinions, beliefs, my sense of justice, and what I think is right or wrong.

[Forest Girl Kaz]

I think it should be allowed. It really is no one's business apart from the couple what they want to do with their lives, not like it effects other people in any way at all. I have some gay friends myself and it makes me sad to see how they are discriminated against just because of what gender they prefer, with all the killings and war going on in the world people need to focus on something other than who's gay/lesbian.

I've heard some say that gay people don't help since they won't be able to have children to carry on the population. The world is too full already in my opinion, we have homeless kids walking the streets, instead of worrying about dying out we should worry about keeping alive those that are already here. I'm sure if push came to shove a gay man would help produce children if it was really needed.

[damarshmallow]

Now here's my point of view on this topic.

Hopeless, you said: It might go against religious teachings, but why would God make people homosexual if He didn't want it to happen? Sure, some people may say that the Natural Law is that a man-woman relationship is the right way, but is there really any "right" ways when it comes to love and attraction? I don't think so. Just because religion says it's wrong, doesn't mean the law has to as well.

First of all God does NOT make people homosexual, and homosexuality is a sin. People who become like that fall into the tempation and make the CHOICE; everyone is tempted by different things. And just because the law says something is okay, doesn't make it right. Like smoking and drinking for instance... the law says that once you reach a certain age you're allowed to do those things, but does that make them good for you? No.

Basically, to sum it all up, I am against gay/lesbian marriages.

[Hopeless Maiden]

Kaz said:

• I've heard some say that gay people don't help since they won't be able to have children to carry on the population. The world is too full already in my opinion, we have homeless kids walking the streets, instead of worrying about dying out we should worry about keeping alive those that are already here.

[/i][/li][/ul]
Couldn't agree more. There are so many abandoned and unwanted children in the world. Maybe it's better to have some people who aren't reproducing.

Marshmallow, you said:

• First of all God does NOT make people homosexual, and homosexuality is a sin. People who become like that fall into the tempation and make the CHOICE; everyone is tempted by different things.

[/i][/li][/ul]
If you read over my last post, Marshmallow, you'll notice that I've already addressed the "choice" issue. This is a qute from my last post:

• Why would someone make a decision like that? Especially since they know it would lead to them being stereotyped and persecuted?

[/i][/li][/ul]
I think that about says it all.

This is a little off topic, but I think it would be good for any person who would use religion to argue their point to read this first:

Perhaps, instead of following what has been preached to you your whole life, maybe you should form your own opinions and not lead your life following religion. Theres a whole world out there that is against religious teachings. Before you make judgement, perhaps you should experience it first. And, if you don't like it, then (as long as you have accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour), you will be forgiven, correct?

[damarshmallow]

Just because Jesus will forgive you, doesn't mean you go off willy-nilly. Christianity is NOT about religion, but about your relationship with Christ. And I choose Him over the world. I never said that I dislike the homosexual people; I just dislike their feelings towards the same sex as their own.

Here's a verse, but I memorized the wrong reference so I don't know where it is found in the Bible: "For the world and it's desires pass away, but the man who obeys God's will lives forever."

I did read that choice issue thing. Despite all that, people do make the choice and they DO fall into the temptation. Sure they may claim they were like that to begin with, but that is absolutely not true. Like I said before; different people suffer from different tempations. Whether that's sex before marriage, murder, homosexuality, theft, etc.

[Hopeless Maiden]

Let me start off by saying that I took personal offence (on behalf of a lesbian friend of mine) to some of the comments that were made. I will address these first.

Marshmallow, you said:

• I never said that I dislike the homosexual people; I just dislike their feelings towards the same sex as their own.
  

That statement is completely contradictory. Their feelings are a part of who they are, and therefore, you are saying that you don't like them. Think about this statement if you choose to reply to this argument.

Marhmallow, you also said:

• Sure they may claim they were like that to begin with, but that is absolutely not true.

[/i][/li][/ul]
How would you know? Are you gay? I have a lesbian friend, and I am positive that there is no choice in the matter. She doesn't want to be homosexual, but she is. I'm not going to bother quoting myself again to you, since it seems quite obvious that you refuse to accept that there is another side to that particular argument.

Oh, and Marshmallow; there's no use in quoting the Bible to me - it means nothing to me. I'm not religious, and I won't be swayed into the beliefs of a group of people that refuse to listen to both sides of the argument and are immeadiately against anything that doesn't help them in some way. And yes; that's the way I view the Christian Church.

That wasn't meant to be an attack on you - rather an attack on the religion you seem to accept so willingly.

Homosexual people are regular people. They work in normal jobs. They grew up as normal kids. Saying they can't get married is like saying that a homosexual person can't work in McDonalds or something like that. It is dicrimination and it shows the closed-mindedness of the people that argue against it.

[blondie91]

When you accuse Christianity as being close-minded and against anything that 'doesn't help them in some way' wouldn't it make a bit more sense if you were to be a bit more open to what Marshmallow says when she recites a Bible verse?...Now that's contradictory. And if you think our religion is one that goes against stuff that doesn't help them and is close-minded, then I don't know where you got that idea from but that's not the truth. Maybe you should look into the matter more before making accusations like that and into a good church that actually tries to follow Jesus' teachings.

I'm not meaning to double-team you with my sister or anything, but on this issue we pretty much have the same view.

When I say this next thing, I'm regarding both sides of this issue: why would a man and a woman be able to have a child together but a man and man or woman and woman not be able to? I think that oughtta send some sort of message that the first was how God intended for it to be. It's the sin filled world we live in that has altered everything in regards to love. And I believe Marshmallow isn't 'refusing to accept that there is another side to that particular argument,' she's simply stating what her opinion on the matter is and knows very well that there is another side.

I do agree with you on the fact that homosexual people are regular people...Just like the rest of us have been from time to time, they've been ensnared by a trap set by the devil. Saying they can't get married isn't like saying they can't work at McDonalds...that's not the issue and a person's job isn't based on what sex they prefer.

Marshmallow is not gay and she knows what she's saying when she says that people are not like that to begin with. An excellent pastor I've listened to once preached on the homosexuality matter and he even said that there have been people like that who have been welcomed into the church with open arms, accepted Jesus into their hearts, and later on down the road they're married to a member of the opposite sex and happier than they've ever been before. The issue may be out of your friend's hands no matter how much she wants to change...which means she'll need outside help. Personally I think they Lord is the best one for the job but that's just me.

Feelings are a part of who a person is, but that's not the whole and just because a person is against homosexuality and those types of marriages, doesn't mean they hate those types of people. And there is a verse to go with this situation too, 'Hate the sin, not the sinner' to put it bluntly. We all sin and therefore our sin, whether it be a little white lie or murder, is all on the same page.

A Christian's job is to love their neighbors (in the sense of a brotherly or sisterly love, but that's not easily or always done one hundred percent of the time) whether they be homosexuals or drug addicts and help them to find Jesus so that they may change from those ways. Christians aren't perfect though just like the rest of the world.

God gave us the gift of free will and if a man wants to marry another man or a woman wants to marry a woman then that's their choice. It doesn't make it ok (there's nothing that could make murder ok for example just to put it in extreme measures) and it's not something I support but if a person is a homosexual, then I don't dislike them by any means just because they're that way. What I can't stand are the comments and movies that make fun of them.

[Hopeless Maiden]

It seems this debate is going to have two major issues combined... religion and the headding topic. You made several comments that I feel I need to address, Blondie.

Comment 1:

• And if you think our religion is one that goes against stuff that doesn't help them and is close-minded, then I don't know where you got that idea from but that's not the truth. Maybe you should look into the matter more before making accusations like that and into a good church that actually tries to follow Jesus' teachings.

[/i]
[/li][/ul]
You make it sound like you think I've never been to church and know nothing about the religion. That is not true. There once was a time when I was extremely religious and did the whole she-bang. I went to church, youth group... you name it I did it.

In the end I got so sick of being told what I was doing wrong in life, that I broke away from it all and became my own person. I made new friends and did all kinds of things I was told I wasn't allowed to do in accordance to "God's Word". And, like I told your sister; quoting Bible verses does nothing to phase me. But I am completely aware that there are people that are passionate about their religion, and I accept that. That does not mean I have to be religious myself.

I think I wasn't very clear when I said that, though. When I said that, I meant people like Ned Flanders on The Simpsons, who believe that only people from their religion will get to Heaven. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Comment 2:

• why would a man and a woman be able to have a child together but a man and man or woman and woman not be able to? I think that oughtta send some sort of message that the first was how God intended for it to be. It's the sin filled world we live in that has altered everything in regards to love.

[/i]
[/li][/ul]
In a perfect world, yes, there would be no homosexual people, I suppose. And everyone else would be kind and caring and all that stuff that there never will be. But, since we don't live in a perfect world, what does that have to show? That everyone is wired differently. It has nothing to do with sin or anything like that. It's not how God intended it to be? Then why did he make us "corruptable" in the first place? If He expected us to be perfect then He would not have made us incorruptable.

Comment 3:

• Saying they can't get married isn't like saying they can't work at McDonalds...that's not the issue and a person's job isn't based on what sex they prefer.

[/i][/li][/ul]
You'd be surprised. How long ago was it that a man couldn't join the Army if he was homosexual? And there are still some people that are prejudiced against homosexual people and refuse to let them work in their workplace.

Comment 4:

• An excellent pastor I've listened to once preached on the homosexuality matter and he even said that there have been people like that who have been welcomed into the church with open arms, accepted Jesus into their hearts, and later on down the road they're married to a member of the opposite sex and happier than they've ever been before.

[/i][/li][/ul]
Those people were one of three things:

1. They weren't homosexual to begin with.

2. They were acting to get them off their backs.

3. They were brainwashed by the people that they spoke to.

You can't "change" a person's sexuality.

Comment 5:

• A Christian's job is to love their neighbors (in the sense of a brotherly or sisterly love, but that's not easily or always done one hundred percent of the time) whether they be homosexuals or drug addicts and help them to find Jesus so that they may change from those ways.

[/i][/li][/ul]
People might not want the "help" of a Christain. If they are happy the way they are, then why do people want to change that? And that isn't exclusive to homosexual people.

Again, it comes down the fact that it's not the Christian's business if a homosexual couple wants to marry. What ever hapened to "live and let live"?

I believe the debate question is not the right one. It should be "Why shouldn't homosexual marriages be legal?" or "Should homosexuality be allowed?", because those seem to be the points were arguing here, with religious undertones.

[blondie91]

Religion aside I may seem like all those other people that don't approve of a gay/lesbian marriage, but I would never prosecute someone for it and making it illegal just might be taking it a little too far because it wouldn't do any good and the basis of it would still exist with or without marriage but they'd still have their right to marry who they want just like everyone else.

People might not want the "help" of a Christain. If they are happy the way they are, then why do people want to change that? And that isn't exclusive to homosexual people.
Again, it comes down the fact that it's not the Christian's business if a homosexual couple wants to marry. What ever hapened to "live and let live"?

No, a Christian shouldn't pry into other people's business because that's just plain nosey, I meant help change and stuff if the people are willing to come to them. It never hurts to minister though but there's only so far a person can go and I didn't mean it like what you're implying...sorry to come across that way. As far as live and let live I did say that that was their choice even though I wouldn't support such views but then again, some people may not be supportive of any decisions I make later on down the road or even now or whenever.

You'd be surprised. How long ago was it that a man couldn't join the Army if he was homosexual? And there are still some people that are prejudiced against homosexual people and refuse to let them work in their workplace.

I honestly wasn't aware of this but there's still prejudice stuff in other regards so I see how that could be possible. And it certainly isn't right.

[salvationinfinity]

I didn't think I'd see a topic like this pop up. But here's my take, not that it'll matter much.

I am an openly bisexual man, and I am just as openly in love with another man. I love him to death and with all my heart, and he is all that I live for. When the time comes, I want to marry him and stay with him till death. We have been together for three years, and I don't believe anything can pull him away from me. So, as a man that loves another, I believe you can all guess my opinion on same-sex marriage. It is my firm and everlasting belief that anyone that is in love should be allowed to BE in love.

No further thoughts for now,

Sal

PS: I just noted that this subject is months old. My apologies for bumping. Hope it's not a bother.

[Mira]

I'm a complete flip-flopper when it comes to homosexual marriages. Being an ardent fan of "Six Feet Under" and the Keith/David pairing (lol), I do appreciate that there can be real love between two men or two women. On the other hand, my strict Presbyterian background seems to collide directly with my previous thought; my father, I think, would have a stroke and die if he ever heard I was tolerant of homosexuality. I've always supported civil unions between homosexual couples because I see no reason for them to be limited financially because of their sexual orientation, but I guess I've always questioned whether a homosexual marriage can be sanctioned by the church (even if it's sanctioned by law) since the church is split into so many different denominations and ideologies. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm okay with homosexuality (not my thing--strictly hetero here, but I respect those who are gay/lesbian), but I question whether "marriage" is appropriate for the union between those couples. And those are my thoughts.